Checking in with Ukrainian designers Ksnenia Shnaider and Ivan Frolov

S3E4: Checking in with Ukrainian Fashion Designers
Ksenia Schnaider &
Ivan Frolov

Dana Thomas: This is Dana Thomas, and you're listening to The Green Dream, a podcast about how to green up your life, by Wondercast Studio.

Climate change is bearing down on us like a mighty hurricane. And it's scary as hell, but it doesn't have to be. I'm Dana Thomas, a leading voice in the sustainable fashion movement. On The Green Dream, I welcome global experts, creators and change makers from politics, business, and the arts for dynamic conversations on how you can green up your life. The Green Dream is the podcast of hope.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency from farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City, and at select stores.

About a year ago, we welcomed on the Green Dream two Ukrainian fashion designers, Ksenia Schnaider and Ivan Frolov, to tell us about their harrowing experiences as the Russian army invaded their homeland. When we spoke, Ksenia was a refugee in Germany, with her husband and their young daughter, figuring out what to do next, and Ivan was at home in Kyiv, which was under heavy assault from the Russians. I thought, with the recent anniversary of the invasion, it would be a good time to check in with them and see how they are managing. Turns out they are as well as well can be, given the circumstances. This may be the most hopeful of all our Green Dream episodes.

I also welcome back Hannah Elliott, luxury car writer for Bloomberg Pursuits, and a regular Green Dream contributor. She's going to tell us about her adventures as the first driver outside of the Rolls-Royce company to test drive the luxury motor brand's new EV, the Spectre. Yes, like the James Bond enemy. Hannah flew halfway around the world to take the wheel. How Bondian of her.

But first, Ksenia and Ivan, who recount their uplifting stories about life in war-battered Kyiv.

Dana Thomas: Ksenia and Ivan, welcome back to The Green Dream. It's wonderful to have you back.

Ivan Frolov: Hi Dana.

Dana Thomas: Hi. So, Ksenia, tell me where you are right now.

Ksenia Schnaider: I moved to the U.K. With my family, so now I'm in Sussex.

Dana Thomas: And you got there when? Last time I spoke to you, you were in Germany, right? A year ago.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah, it was six months ago and we moved here by car. We took a ferry, and now we're quite settled in the U.K. But my production and my team are still in Ukraine, so I go there to work with them.

Dana Thomas: And how do you go? You fly directly into...?

Ksenia Schnaider: I fly to Warsaw and then I go by car.

Dana Thomas: And you're staying with a host family in Sussex now?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes, we live with a family, and it's very interesting feeling because sometimes I feel I got a new family, they're not just hosts, they became like friends and very close people to me and they're really supporting me as a designer, and I invited them to my show, and yeah, I'm very grateful to this family.

Dana Thomas: That's great. And Ivan, you are now in London, right? But you're still based in Kyiv?

Ivan Frolov: Yes. I just came back from Paris Fashion Week to London for a few days for work and soon I will go back to Kyiv. Can't wait to see my team and my production and my office, because it's very difficult to work on distance. But it's a fashion week and I spent, like, a month without them, so can't wait to come back.

Dana Thomas: Now, you both just recently showed during London Fashion Week last month. So tell me about that. You had a show that was put together with the Ukrainian Fashion Week and London Fashion Week and the British Fashion Council, right?

Ivan Frolov: Yes. We had this great opportunity to present our collection – me, Ksenia, and another wonderful Ukrainian designer, Paskal. We presented three shows at the official schedule of London Fashion Week.

Dana Thomas: That's great. And then Ivan, you also were showing during Paris Couture Week in January, weren't you?

Ivan Frolov: Yes, that was our first time after five years. So we made a small presentation during Haute Couture Fashion Week. We presented our couture collection. It's named "Island of Love."

Dana Thomas: And where did you have the show? The presentation.

Ivan Frolov: That was small gallery near Pompidou Centre, which we use as...

Dana Thomas: Like a showroom and a presentation and everything, right?

Ivan Frolov: It was very specific presentation because, for me, it was very important to do it in a very professional way, but the atmosphere of our brand, the idea we choose, because it looks like a dark room for making pictures, like photo dark room. So we shot our campaign in Kyiv with Ukrainian photographer Vic Bakin, and he made it on film and we filmed all the process, how he creates these pictures. Then we made this installation with the screens on the floor, with all these videos, how paper lie to the water and then pictures reveal to this world. So for me it's something similar between what's going on right now at our production in Kyiv. So sometimes we are in darkness, but I don't want to say that it's something beautiful. It's something similar between how photographers create pictures in dark room, and how we sometimes during the blackout create, even without light, beautiful pieces.

Dana Thomas: And what was your collection like, Ksenia? You work a lot with denim, recycled denim and secondhand denim that you've recut and turned into new clothes. So what was your collection like? Did it have a name as well?

Ksenia Schnaider: No, it didn't have a name and I didn't have any specific theme or inspiration for this collection. I found myself enjoying this process a lot, because I thought that I couldn't have this opportunity to work as a designer anymore when war started. So being able to be with my team, to do fittings, to create, was such a happy moment for me. I just want to create my initial desire and the idea of this collection was to escape from reality. So there is no black color in my collection and...

Dana Thomas: There's no black.

Ksenia Schnaider: No black and nothing. I tried to infuse it with light, with hope, with joy, with only positive feelings and it's just my way – escapism, I would say. So I just use all my techniques, like upcycling, zero-waste materials. For example, we use our denim cutouts and we created a material in a very old wooden machine. It's like a rack technique and I like this idea that it's completely zero-waste production and it's also supporting Ukrainian craft. So I was more into the process rather than storytelling. So I just want to present KSENIASCHNAIDER at London Fashion Week, and show what we can do the best, what we learned for this 10 years as a company, as a production. So for me it was like that. It was also during blackouts, as Ivan said, I was working this winter, and it was, I think, the most terrible winter in my life.

Dana Thomas: You were in Kyiv?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes.

Dana Thomas: Working with your studio?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes, yes.

Dana thomas: And so tell me how it was there. How were you all both working? I mean, the factories are running and you're in downtown? Do you hear the gunfire? Do you hear the planes going overhead? What is it like?

Ivan Frolov: We all heard everything you mentioned. When blackouts started in Kyiv, we didn't have a generator because it's very expensive even for businesses to buy big generators, because our production, we need big generators, not the regular ones, so it costs a lot. So we can't buy it quick. It was even a challenge to buy it in Ukraine because all of them were sold out. We need to wait a few months. We were lucky because there are only few moments when we had a real backout, like few days without the light. But I'm so proud of my team, even in that situation, that we worked on different, important and very big projects with our team and one of them we created costumes for Sam Smith's music video. We had very short deadline. One Monday we were on final part of sewing and embroidery and suddenly we heard air alarm and light was shut down.

Ivan Frolov: My team was so strong, and they just said, "Okay, if we don't have light, we can do it in mechanic way." They do it by their hands, like put on the sewing machine, different pencils with tape, and just do everything to sew by hand in mechanic way. And all my embroidery masters put their cell phones with a tape to the lamp turned on the light. In such way, they finished all costumes in right time. Without light, without electricity. Then I understood there is nothing impossible for Ukrainians, you know? In that very weak moment, we suddenly felt so much power in ourselves that we can do even more. That was horrible experience, but it makes us only stronger. So of course now we have a generator at our production and when we have these problems we turn on generator and we have electricity. But that winter was horrible, horrible story for us.

Dana Thomas: You also made a costume for Beyoncé. Did you do that in Kyiv?

Ivan Frolov: Yes, of course. Yes.

Dana Thomas: So it was the first concert she'd done in four years, and she wore one of your outfits at a hotel opening in Dubai, a really spangly pink corset dress with matching crystal tights and gloves. It looked pretty spectacular. How did it come together? How did you hear that she wanted this costume, and and she came to you and asked for it?

Ivan Frolov: So during you telling me that, I'm feeling like I heard this first time. I still can't believe it happened with our brand. Yes, it's great success. So appreciated to her very professional stylist team, for Mr. Carter, that she choose Ukrainian brand, because even during the show she choose our dress for the final part. When she sings all the best hits – all her songs are beautiful, but she choose for the final part. I never can imagine that Beyoncé will sing "Naughty Girl" in my dress when I was like younger. Okay.,. I still remember that video movie for this song and that was my favorite one forever. That was my biggest dream before the war, that Beyoncé will wear our brand, but it happen right now when all of us have only one big dream, the dream about victory. So I think it's always happened with our dreams.

Ivan Frolov: It's come true when we didn't expect and sometimes even when this dream, it's not our main dream in our life. So. of course it's great, but in the same moment it's always a big challenge for our team because our brand is more about celebration, about something beautiful, sparkling, embroidery. You know that it's always a mental problem when you need to do something for celebration, something beautiful; in the same time, 500 kilometers from you, Ukrainian soldiers died for you to make it happen. So. it's always like, "You're doing something wrong. What are you doing right now? Is it necessary to do this?" These thoughts about what we are doing. In the same time, I understand that it supports us a lot. We are doing what we are doing the best and only in this way we continue running our business, continue support our brands, continue support our teams in this way, support our economy of our country. It's alway very painful, but we must do that. And to tell the truth, the main thing, what was the most important for me, I received so many messages from different people, my friends, fans of the brand, press from Ukraine, and for Ukrainian people it was that good news we have because nowadays we have not many good news. So it's very important, even these small victories like Beyoncé wearing Ukrainian designers, it's inspired people to continue to fight, to continue doing what they can do in this terrible situation.

Dana Thomas: Absolutely, absolutely.

If you are enjoying this episode, check out our first chat with Ksenia and Ivan, recorded nearly a year ago, shortly after Russia first invaded their homeland of Ukraine. By listening to their stories of despair back then, you will understand how beautiful it is to hear they are now making the best of the situation now, and how courageous they are. To learn more about similar small victories in the climate movement, sign up for The Green Dream newsletter at thegreendream.studio, Now, back to Ksenia Schnaider and Ivan Frolov.

Now, Ksenia, you've done some really beautiful things also to support the Ukrainian movement. You made the most cheerful summer shirts and dresses last year in floral print that were Ukraine's colors. How did they sell and how else have you been helping with the Ukrainian war effort?

Ksenia Schnaider: In all these shirts, I ordered this material for these shirts I think two years ago. I don't know how it happened, but they became very relevant two years later. And, of course, they were selling great because it's a very gentle way to show that you are supporting Ukraine without putting a flag, or something very straightforward. I really like the idea that it's just a floral shirt, very feminine, but in the colors of our national flag.

Dana Thomas: Blue and yellow.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah, in blue and yellow.

Dana Thomas: How else have you been supporting the war effort? You go back and you're still making everything there. So there are people who are running the factories and still sewing and making things.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes, my team is around 20 people now, and they all are in Ukraine. I know that Ivan's team is much more bigger.

Dana Thomas: And are you afraid to go back when you leave London to go? Are you worried about your safety?

Ksenia Schnaider: Of course. I think it's normal to be afraid to come back to warzone. For me, the most terrifying was not what I saw or heard explosions. I saw tanks on the street. The most terrifying was to see my friends and family and see changes in them because they stayed. I moved to peaceful country and I go back, but they stayed and they keep living in this. I think they don't understand how it reacted on them and influenced them, but I can see it, and it's very heartbreaking to see how people change.

Dana Thomas: What do you see?

Ksenia Schnaider: They became older, weaker. Their eyes are not shining, even if when they're smiling and joking. It's hard to explain. It's just different person and you just want to hug and stay with them.

Dana Thomas: But they don't want to leave.

Ksenia Schnaider: My parents, they don't want to leave. They said they will stay. They said after our victory we will go and rest somewhere at the seaside. But now their choice is to stay.

Dana Thomas: And of course they remember when it was still the U.S.S.R., correct? They already lived through...

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes, of course.

Dana Thomas: Through a terrible time once before.

Ksenia Schnaider: That's why they don't want to go back.

Dana Thomas: And what about the people in your studio? Any of them left and they come back or have they all stayed as well?

Ksenia Schnaider: They all stayed. I think people who decided to leave, they made the decision at the beginning of war and people who decided to stay, they are staying, you know? I don't see people decided to leave six months later. It's very rare. Most of people who stayed, they're like, "Okay, we are staying."

Dana Thomas: And where do you stay when you go back? With your parents?

Ksenia Schnaider: No, I have my own apartment. My home. And I miss my flowers a lot because I have a lot of – it sounds strange, but I really miss them, and I always ask someone to go and water them and send me pictures. It's very heartbreaking to come back to your home, but your daughter is not there and her room is empty. I see her toys, and now I know that it's been a year and she already grown so much, so she might not need these toys, and books, and clothes. So she already much more bigger and mature and it's very difficult to enter her room and see her past life. It's hard to stay at home, even I really missed it. But now it's empty and there's no life in it. So I prefer not to stay home. I prefer only go to sleep there. But most of the time spent in the studio because in the studio I see life, see people working, and there's some energy there still.

Dana Thomas: Exactly. And your daughter's going to English schools now? And she's learning English?

Ksenia Schnaider: Learning English and trying to find new friends and build a new life.

Dana Thomas: How old now? 11 you said.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes, but in a month she will be 12. So she is a teenager.

Dana Thomas: Nearly. Have you all been doing well with your sales after the fashion show? Did you get new retailers picking up your clothes? Are you selling really well? Has there been an uptick and everything's going okay? I mean you've had Beyoncé so I mean you're fine, right, , Ivan?

Ivan Frolov: Maybe it's looks better than it is. Of course, after the runway at the London Fashion Week, we get a lot of attention from press and buyers.

Dana Thomas: Where can listeners find your clothes? They find them online at your own websites, but where else can we find them?

Ivan Frolov: First of all, of course our website. But nowadays we have 18 boutiques all over the world that represent our brands. It's Canada, Brazil, United States. Saudi Arabia, Paris. In Los Angeles, it's H. Lorenzo. Also, it's Ikram in Chicago.

Dana Thomas: I just saw Ikram in Paris last week.

Ivan Frolov: Nice. in United Kingdom, it's new stockist for ours. I didn't remember the name.

Dana Thomas: And Ksenia, where are your clothes available? Are you all on websites too, like NET-A-PORTER or Matches?

Ksenia Schnaider: Not yet. And for us it was three-year break because it was two years of Covid and then one year of war. So now it's kind of coming back because we had a show and then we went to physical showroom in Paris. I believe that sales will be better next season because this season was more like, "Hi, here we are again. We're still here." We do not have huge stockist for the moment. I think the biggest one international is Zalando for us.

Dana Thomas: Oh, that's great, Zalando.

Ksenia Schnaider: And in the U.K. we have Koibird.

Ivan Frolov: Oh yes.

Ksenia Schnaider: It's a nice but very cute store.

Ivan Frolov: Yeah, very beautiful. Yes, yes. I remember Bird, but I forgot first part.

Dana Thomas: Perfect. And will you be doing shows again in September?

Ivan Frolov: Yes, it's our biggest dream right now. So love London Fashion Week. This energy–each fashion week has its own energy, own vibe and I'm fond of London Fashion Week vibe. It's all about new brands, new generation, everything new. Of course, there's some big brands in the fashion week, but I felt this big attention from press. I saw a lot of other new brands, and I love this vibe, and I feel like it's the right place for Frolov for next season. But, of course, if we will have victory – I'm sure we will have victory soon – my biggest dream is to make a show in Kyiv, and invite you, Dana, and all other press, and guests, and buyers who gave us so much support during the war, and invite them and show them Kyiv Ukrainian Fashion Week and made our show in Kyiv. And say thank you and present our country and go with them everywhere. Show our cuisine, our restaurants, our hospitality. It's the biggest dream after the victory.

Dana Thomas: Yes, I would love that. I think we definitely have to do that. So tell me, what did you do when you were in Paris? Was Paris a bit of a joyful break for both of you to be here for Paris Fashion Week and doing retail meetings and sales?

Ivan Frolov: Yes, that was like showroom, wholesale showroom for me, and for Ksenia I think the same. This season was very full of appointments and...

Dana Thomas: And did you have fun too? Did you go out and do some fun things?

Ivan Frolov: No, to tell the truth, I don't have this energy to visit parties and for me it's still difficult to take part in some kind of celebrations. Of course I'm trying not to show that in my work in the showroom. But we still had very difficult and very bad news from frontline. So, of course, in that moment you can't think about any parties or something like that. You are with your country. As for work with Paris and made a showroom, it's very important for us, but not parties this time. We are still fighting for our freedom, doing what we can do in this situation.

Dana Thomas: Now are you still making uniforms, Ivan?

Ivan Frolov: No, we finished with that. It's interesting that even now we had the small stock of bulletproof vests. We still send it for people who ask us, but we don't produce more. So I hope nowadays everything is better with this type of needs that army has...

Ksenia Schnaider: Supplies.

Dana Thomas: And Ksenia, are you helping in any way with providing anything to the war effort directly?

Ksenia Schnaider: We are donating money to volunteers I personally know. So we just send part of our sales, or it just personal donation to people who need it, or to some small organizations, not big ones. And also I'm working on some special pieces–100 percent of sales goes to charity from these pieces. I think it's our daily routine, just you see that someone's needing something and you just send whatever you can, whatever amount is okay for you today.

Dana Thomas: And when you come from London, do you bring anything special for the studio? Do you bring a care package?

Ksenia Schnaider: Just some sweets and...

Dana Thomas: Some good tea and some chocolate.

Dana Thomas: Yes. Some nice things, but not necessary. Just sweets and some presents.

Dana Thomas: So what can listeners do to help to support the war effort in their way? Of course they can follow what you all are doing online and they can donate to things like the Red Cross, but do you have any other suggestions?

Ivan Frolov: So I think it's another reason why we take part in London Fashion Week for our brands amazing possibility to continue talk about the war in Ukraine, because I believe that fashion is the most powerful media for us. The main thing right now is important to send this message that war is still going on in Ukraine every day. And Ukrainian soldiers are fighting for freedom of Ukraine, fighting to protect the whole world from the biggest terrorist of 21st century. And this is the main thing I think right now, to spread this information, and take attention of all people in the world that war is still going on, and we can stop talking about it only after the full victory of Ukraine. It's the easiest what each person who wants to support Ukraine can do: spread information about the war. Of course, donate. Of course, one can visit website of our charity project, because we're trying to make it separate from the brand. We have another website of Frolov Heart Project, is a sweatshirt with handmade embroidery of Ukrainian heart. So we also give all profits to charity organizations that support children affected by war, that supports people who need to rebuild their homes after rocket attacks. They can support him this way and by Ukrainian goods. I think maybe Ksenia also add something.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes. I think spreading information is still very important, because now this topic is not so hot. I know it's not the right word, but…

Ivan Frolov: Not the topic number one.

Ksenia Schnaider: And we really need world to hear us and not to forget about us. Buying something made in Ukraine, produced in Ukraine, is really helpful. It's supporting a lot of people involved in the process.

Dana Thomas: Wonderful. Well, we thank you so much for being on The Green Dream, and send you lots of courage and know that we're supporting you and thinking of you as you go back to Kyiv and keep everyone working and making beautiful clothes and keeping beauty alive in this terrible situation. It's a really brave thing that you're doing, and we thank you for it.

Ksenia Schnaider: Thank you so much.

Ivan Frolov: Thank you, Dana, for this opportunity to talk with you. It's always a big pleasure and sending lots of love from our hearts to you.

Dana Thomas: Now onto green wheeling: Bloomberg's luxury car writer and regular Green Dream contributor Hannah Elliott received an offer she couldn't refuse: Rolls-Royce asked her if she'd like to be the first person outside of the company to test drive its new EV, the Spectre. Of course, she said yes. Here's her review.

Hannah Elliott: Not many cars can convince my editor to buy me a rather expensive plane ticket and send me 10,000 miles around the world to drive it for one day.

But when Rolls-Royce said I could be the first driver outside the company to test its first-ever electric vehicle, I started looking for my passport.

That’s how I ended up in Cape Town behind the wheel of the 2023 Rolls-Royce Spectre. After rolling around South African wine country, I found the estimated $500,000 coupe to be smoother, more silent and more powerful–not to mention better looking–than any of its V-12 predecessors. The 118-year-old brand has tied its mythology to its famously huge combustion engines, but this first step into electrification is bold and surefooted. The firstborn in a planned line of electric vehicles, this two-door titan saturates its passengers in indulgence. It signals a smooth transition ahead.

Spectre is by far the most expensive-to-develop, and most agonized-over, vehicle Rolls-Royce has ever produced, according to the brand.I had to hustle all the way from Los Angeles to South Africa for a first crack at driving it, because engineers had it down there for final hot-weather testing. The car I drove is a pre-production prototype.

When I first saw the car parked on grey cobblestones in an immaculately manicured vineyard near Cape Town, its grand stance – nearly 18 feet long and more than six feet wide – communicated a significant sense of occasion. This is the ultimate luxury vehicle, where no expense is spared for creature comforts and ease of driving. It’s what you get when money is no object, but you still have a good British sense of restraint and refinement. Its long fastback shape most approximates the rare Phantom Coupe made from 2008 to 2016 rather than the smaller Wraith, although this is a vehicle designed from scratch, not one derived from anything else. (Rolls-Royce co-developed the battery and motors with parent company BMW, then further refined them over months of testing to comply with Rolls-Royce standards.)

I first explored it in the streets around Franschhoek, about 50 miles outside of Cape Town. Chartreuse paint flecked with metallic flakes glittered in the African sun, and the yawning front nose and 23-inch wheels looked regal enough for King Charles himself. The two doors are a whopping 1.5 meters (5 feet) long, so big that an electric motor closes them when you press the brake, because you can’t reach the handle. An elongated and illuminated grille looks hungry enough to swallow an elephant. Speaking of trunks, there isn’t one in the front, as there is in other EVs. The consensus at Rolls-Royce seems to be that it wouldn’t have been dignified.

But it was the cumulative details cocooned inside that made Spectre feel both outstanding — when compared with the interiors of other EVs — and familiar, since it offers the same level of handiwork as every other new Rolls-Royce. To wit: Spectre’s polished wood and silver inlays blow away the interiors of the likes of Tesla or Rivian but will feel unremarkable to fans of the brand. Just don’t expect huge new entertainment monitors and virtual displays; you buy a Rolls-Royce because it’s a sanctuary, not a moving screen.

“There is no need for some outstanding unseen super funky digital features” in Spectre, Torsten Müller-Ötvös, the chief executive officer of Rolls-Royce, told me in Cape Town. “We, by intention, didn’t encapsulate a monstrous screen. You have other cars for that in your garage.”

Instead, my favorite interior touch is very old world indeed: the steel air vents got so cold when I ran the air conditioning during my drive that condensation formed on them like the droplets on a bottle of champagne. That’s a deliberate effect, by the way. It has lived in Rolls-Royces for decades, long before even the 1975 Silver Shadow that I own, which does the same thing. Rolls-Royce owners love the continuity.

You’ll recognize plenty of other touches: the umbrellas in those massive doors, lambswool carpeting so thick it’ll hide your toes, and thousands of pins of LED light covering the ceiling for the signature starry night headliner. (Now these stars appear on the doors of the car as well — as you’re sipping electricity, you’re wrapped in the stars.)

It also had the single most important thing Rolls-Royce owners expect: A powerful, smooth and hushed ride, made even more so because it’s electric. After navigating it up vine-laden hills and across red-dirt countryside, my take is that Spectre is actually more Rolls-Royce than any previous Rolls-Royce. Its electric powertrain has only enhanced what company co-founder Charles Rolls set out to create. Its motor, with 577 horsepower and 664 pound-feet of torque, surged seamlessly as I pressed the accelerator. At 6,500 pounds the car is indeed heavy, but it remained firmly planted around corners and behaved with balanced control when I asked it to sidestep slow-moving trucks and work rigs—and I passed plenty of those as I zoomed up the hills around Franschhoek. Zero to 60 mph is 4.4 seconds; top speed is 155 mph. Asking it to accelerate felt like asking some sort of heavy gilded coach to levitate and fly; but then, it almost feels like it does. The only danger here is that of unwittingly speeding, since those three-digit speeds sneak up on you in a car this quick and quiet.

I credit the active anti-roll bar system, dampers and air suspension for creating the deception that Rolls-Royce calls its “magic carpet ride.”

The trick, of course, is that making such a huge machine feel so effortless requires immense effort on the part of engineers and designers. Crawling through the narrow streets of Franschhoek, holding my breath as I squeezed past towering commercial trucks and agricultural machines, and I never questioned where exactly the car ended, never sweated navigating the tight confines of sunbaked alleys. I did wonder, Is Rolls-Royce crazy to have me piloting this Very Important Thing through farmland? It definitely felt out of place. But the feedback through the steering wheel and the brakes, the four-wheel steering, and the visibility through its pillarless cabin told me precisely where we were in relation to the road.

That said, I did lose my sense of place once, when I pulled out of the vineyard and took a hard right turn, down a hill, to leave the entrance gate. The hood of the vehicle is so long that turning down steep inclines leaves you feeling like you’re looking out into thin air at the top of the roller coaster; you can’t see over the hood. My best advice: Use the parking cameras liberally and proceed with caution.

I didn’t drive Spectre far enough to use much more than a small chunk of percentage points of its battery life – total driving range is 260 miles, according to EPA estimates. Spectre will be able to charge from 10% to 80% full in 34 minutes on a fast-charger, according to preliminary data from the brand. That’s slightly less range than what is offered by the excellent EV entries from Mercedes-Benz, but most Rolls-Royce owners don’t drive their vehicles more than 5,000 miles a year, which equates to roughly 400 miles a month and just over 20 miles on any given working day. Plus, most will have someone else to worry about things like keeping the car charged.

According to Rolls-Royce’s research, the majority of prospective Spectre buyers already own an EV or three anyway. They have the necessary at-home charging equipment and, in some locations, generators needed to sustain electric power. There’re plenty of posh peers from which to choose, too: Besides electric offerings from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW, smaller makers such as Rimac and Pinin Farina are taking orders on some alluring EV hypercars. (Ultra-luxury competitors Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari, and Lamborghini have yet to offer a full EV.)

If I sound effusive, it’s because when you operate at this level of expense, time and labor, the results earn respect. That’s what I want to underscore here. Many consumers will accept misaligned body panels, finicky software and plasticky components on a new EV if it makes them feel like they’re doing something to save the planet. (Rivian, Lucid, and Tesla, I’m looking at you.)

But the kind of folks who spend half a million dollars on anything tend to expect perfection regardless of what is underneath the hood. This newly raised bar will filter its way down to more reasonably priced offerings, I really hope. The battery technology we have these days is increasingly thrilling; the comforts and craftsmanship should match.

“We have the most demanding customers ever,” CEO Müller-Ötvös told me. “You can’t say ‘It’ll be a better version later; we are going to give an update.’ We must deliver.”

The irony of driving an electric vehicle around a city unable to provide enough electricity for its inhabitants for even one day hung heavy during my drive. (Cape Town, with multiple scheduled blackouts every day affecting all its residents, in order to manage the lack of power.) Cape Town is not the test case for an EV future; it actually highlights the distance we have yet to go.

In the meantime, I predict the excellent Spectre will do well for Rolls-Royce. If you pay a $20,000 deposit now, they say, you can expect the car by 2024. Special-order clients can go directly to the factory in Goodwood, England, to pick it up — there are more than 44,000 exterior paint combinations alone to sort through. Start looking for your passport.

Dana Thomas: Thank you for listening to The Green Dream. We'll be back in two weeks with 20-year-old climate activist Mya-Rose Craig, author of Birdgirl, a memoir about her childhood as one of the world's most accomplished birdwatchers, and what birds tell us about the state of the environment. We hope you'll join us.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency. From Farm to Fabric to Attia. Find another tomorrow on its website, another tomorrow.co at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City and at select stores.

The Green Dream was written by Dana Thomas. From Talkbox Productions with executive producer Tavia Gilbert, and mix and master by Kayla Elrod. Music performed by Eric Brace of Red Beet Records in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m Dana Thomas, the European Sustainability Editor for British Vogue. You can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter, where my handle for both is @DanaThomasParis. And you can sign up for The Green Dream Newsletter at our website: thegreendream.studio. Thank you for listening.