Frolov & Ksenia — The Green Dream

S1E5: Transcript

Praying for Peace: Ukrainian Fashion Designers
Ksenia Schnaider &
Ivan Frolov

Dana Thomas: This is Dana Thomas, and you're listening to The Green Dream, a podcast about how to green up your life, by Wondercast Studio.

Climate change is bearing down on us like a mighty hurricane. And it's scary as hell, but it doesn't have to be. I'm Dana Thomas, a leading voice in the sustainable fashion movement. On The Green Dream, I welcome global experts, creators and change makers from politics, business, and the arts for dynamic conversations on how you can green up your life. The Green Dream is the podcast of hope.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency from farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City, and at select stores.

When Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, I immediately wrote to a handful of people I knew in Kyiv to see if they were safe and to offer refuge with me in Paris if they had to flee. Two were editors of fashion magazines. One worked with the Kyiv Book Fair, an annual literary festival. And one was Ksenia Schnaider, a sustainable fashion designer I met pre-Covid at a New York Times conference in Paris where we were both speakers. Ksenia founded her namesake fashion company in 2011 with her husband Anton Schnaider, a graphic designer. By using pro-environment sewing techniques such as upcycling, patchwork, and recycled denim, she had made her mark in fashion, creating beautifully tailored avant-garde men's and women's wear, all produced in Ukraine. More than a week after I wrote to Ksenia, I received this message from her:

The situation is horrible...

Last week, my family was living under bombs and then we decided to cross the border to keep our daughter safe. We are in Budapest now. But our lives are ruined, we left everything in Kyiv–our own production, our own store, a team of 30 members...

And I really do not know what to do now. I am volunteering, and trying to help from here. And everyday I pray for peace.

In April, I received a heartening note from the London PR agency Purple: they were now representing KSENIASCHNAIDER, whose fashion is available on e-tailing sites such as Zalando, Vestiaire Collective and Jomashop, as well as on her own website KSENIASCHNAIDER.com. The agency had also picked up another Kyiv-based fashion company named Frolov, run by a young designer named Ivan Frolav, who, since 2015, has made beautiful clothes inspired by transexual culture, BDSM aesthetics, and the LGBTQ+ movement. Frolov is available at Farfetch, Lyst, and Opening Ceremony, as well as on the website, Frolov.fr.

What you may not know is that, before the war, fashion was a thriving and important business in Ukraine. Until the war started, Vogue, Harper’s Bazaar, and L’Officiel magazine all published Ukraine editions. And Ukraine Fashion Week, the first pret-a-porter event in Eastern Europe, had been an influential bi-annual event in international fashion since it was established in 1997. Ukraine Fashion Week showcased more than 100 designers, and 12,000 people attended each season. Now, as Ksenia and Ivan will tell us today, that has all come to a halt.

Ksnenia is now based in Nuremberg, Germany with her family, and she has applied for a visa to the United Kingdom. Ivan initially fled to a safer region of Ukraine, then returned to Kyiv some weeks later to contribute to the defense of his homeland by shifting his team’s work orders from creating couture to sewing uniforms for the Ukraine army. Ksenia and Ivan will tell us today about their fashionable pre-war lives, when they dressed Ukraine’s first lady Olena Zelenska and pop stars Duo Lipa and Gwen Stefani. And they'll share the reality of their grief, horror, and loss — the harrowing experiences they have endured since Russia began to brutalize their beloved homeland nearly three months ago. And they'll tell us what they hope for next, and how we can help.

Dana Thomas: Ivan and Ksenia, thank you so much for joining The Green Dream. It's wonderful to have you on today.

Ksenia Schnaider: Hi, Dana. Very nice to be here with you. Thank you so much for inviting me and Ivan as well.

Ivan Frolov: Dana, we appreciate this opportunity to talk with you today. Thank you very much.

Dana Thomas: And where are you speaking to us from Ksenia?

Ksenia Schnaider: Now I'm in Germany. In Nuremberg. I had a place here to stay, so I'm here for now, but I don't know where I'm gonna go next. So I hope I can go back to Kyiv and continue what I've been building for 10 years because KseniaSchnaider our brand is 10 years old. So I think it's quite big, especially for Ukrainian industry because, our country is young country, and to have a brand developing for 10 years. For us, it's huge. I know that for Italy or France, it's nothing, but for Ukraine it's, it's like part of our modern history.

Dana Thomas: And Ivan, where are you speaking to us from today?

Ivan Frolov: Now I'm in Kyiv It's my city, where I was born. I can tell you that my maternity hospital is located in Kyiv city center. It's called Pecherskyi district. And it's funny that 16 years after I just crossed a street and went to start at the Kyiv National University of Technologies and Design, which is just in front of it. Jokes aside I'm lucky person, because I never had no doubt about who I want to become.

Dana Thomas: Can you describe what happened and when you left?

Ksenia Schnaider: I think we left Kyiv on second or on third day of invasion. But we didn't plan to leave. And actually it's really hard in such situation to take a decision because you don't know, is it safer for you to stay at home with your daughter or is it safer to go somewhere because you don't know what can happen during this road? You cannot be sure in anything, so it was really hard to take this decision to leave. But we had the friends, a couple and they just called us and asked, could you please drive us to Chernivtsi. It's a small city in Western Ukraine because they said it's impossible to get a train. It's overcrowded and they don't have a car. So we decided, okay, we will drive them and maybe we'll stay there as well for a few days, just to be sure that it's one back to normal, we go back to Kyiv.

Ksenia Schnaider: So we went to Chernivtsi, we spent some few days there, but it was impossible to find a place to stay because people from all over Ukraine, they all moved there, trying to find something safer for their families. So we had to sleep in car. We had to sleep on the floor somewhere in shelters. It was a terrible week. Not terrible, it was difficult. It was maybe not so comfortable, but it w, but it was okay because we all were safe. And after weeks there, we decided to cross the border because situation in Ukraine was getting worse and worse. And so we decided it's safer for our daughter to go somewhere abroad. And we hadn't any plan. Where can we go? We just stand in the line for Poland,

Ksenia Schnaider: and the line was not moving. And some people told us that they spent three days, four days in the line, and we decided that we should go back and buy some food at least because we don't have any food or water with us. We didn't expect that we have to wait for so long in the line. So we go back, then we checked that there is not such huge line to Hungary and we weren't there. We stand in line like 20 hours. And we crossed the border to Hungary. And I had a showroom, they were our partners and they were distributing our clothes to China. And they had office in Budapest and they wrote me: "Ksenia, how are you? Do you need some help?"

Ksenia Schnaider: And they really helped us. They found for us an apartment for free, they provided us with food, with clothes, with moral support. It was really important that days. So we spend a week there, and then we moved to Germany because we had found opportunity to live here for a few months. So now we are here, but we left everything behind. So I have a small suitcase with me. And it's all winter clothes, and now it's getting hotter because it's spring and soon it will be summer. And we don't have any clothes for such occasions with us. We just randomly packed stuff. But it's good to be in a safe place. And it's good to see a lot of support in Europe. And I'm forever grateful for people who are helping Ukrainians.

Dana Thomas: What a journey. But at least you're safe. And your daughter is how old now?

Ksenia Schnaider: She's 11.

Dana Thomas: A big journey and still turbulent. You're still in movement. And Ivan, you said that you fled to Western Ukraine for a while, but then you returned to the city. When did you go to Western Ukraine? And how was that?

Ivan Frolov: The first thing we did when we knew that the war began, was an emergency meeting with our team. We decided to stop our production. And then my family and I made a decision to flee because at the moment it felt right to get ourselves to the safest place we could find. It was 22 hours ride by car that usually takes, I think, seven hours. The road was changing all the time due to shelling and traffic jams. And I think since February 24th, we have not slept for two days. I took only a pair of clothes and emergency suitcase with all documents. But I understand that it was enough for me to leave for two months only with this stuff. And finally, now I am in Kyiv. I came here just a week ago, after two months I spent in Western part of Ukraine.

Dana Thomas: Why did you return to the city?

Ivan Frolov: We decided to restart our production to support army and to try to support our team to make others that made our international buyers. We resume our production so we can produce some things. It's very important for now because with the help of experts, we will be able financially provide a team and help the army, which is very important for us and for economy of our country. So I hope step by step, we will resume our work and do our best.

Dana Thomas: How many people before this all started did you have working there and where were you making your things? Everything was made locally, correct?

Ivan Frolov: So our team has 35 employees. Just a couple of months before the war, we opened our FROLOV hub. It's creative space where our production takes place. It's located in the city center, in the heart of Kyiv. So for now, half of our team is in Kyiv and we restart our work, but directly now we are concentrate on different things that we produce for army and for our soldiers. It's the main line we do.

Dana Thomas: And what are you making for them?

Ivan Frolov: It's bulletproof vests, to protect their hearts, and different types of bags for rockets, for different equipment. And also, we produce special sizes of uniform because now we have some soldiers who have a big size or who are very tall and they don't have opportunity to buy the right size of uniform so we see for them individually because it's different to find uniform in Kyiv for now. So that's all we do. But in the same time we try to accumulate all our stock abroad and try to restart working of our website. And now we can produce some pieces and send it to our customers all over the world. But now it's very difficult because air connection is broken, it doesn't work in Ukraine, so we need to move pieces to somewhere in Europe and then just send it to our customers.

Dana Thomas: And Ivan, what are you making the uniforms with? What sort of material? Do they provide the material? Or are you just finding stock somewhere? How is that working out?

Ivan Frolov: So for now it's very difficult situation with materials especially for uniform, because it's difficult to find in Kyiv because everything is sold out. But we also have opportunities to find it in Europe. For now we are also waiting for the reopening of production in Ukraine that produce this type of material. It's cotton but with a special covering to protect from different things, like wind and fire and other things. I don't know how to explain, but it's a special type of fabric.

Dana Thomas: Do you have news Ksenia from your team who did stay behind in the city and in Kyiv?

Ksenia Schnaider: Of course we are in contact. Every day, first we are checking everyone's are they safe? Are they okay? And then we start discussing our working issues. I drove back to Kyiv also a month ago to set up our production. So I went back to Kyiv when Kyiv was surrounded, so Russian army were still there. So it was really dangerous. And every minute I was driving to Kyiv, I was thinking that I should turn back, but I don't know how I managed to do it. But I reached Kyiv. I met with head of my production and together we planned, how can we produce spring-summer orders? Because to be honest, buyers started to ask for refunds and we didn't have possibility to refund them.

Ksenia Schnaider: And I understood that we have to produce their orders. We have to ship them, somehow because it's our chance to receive money, not to give money back, but to receive the money, to support team, to pay our team for the work. And that's why I took this risk and that's why I drove back to Kyiv. And that's why we packed our stock, we packed some of our materials, we sent it to Western Ukraine. I quickly found some ateliers, somehow we managed to restart our work. And now when Kyiv is free from Russian army, we can at least work somehow. It's still danger of shelling. It's still sirens almost every hour. But they are working. So, each day they are texting me: Ksenia, today we are going to work, or Ksenia, today we are not going to work because it's some danger. So we prefer to stay at home with our families because they all have kids. And of course we are putting safety as a priority, but still trying to work.

Dana Thomas: Wow. And retailers were canceling their orders and asking for refunds.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes. Unfortunately. Not all of them, but yeah.

Dana Thomas: Remarkable. The coldness of the fashion industry sometimes is astounding. It's like during COVID, when they were canceling orders in Bangladesh and the workers were going home starving, instead of saying, "Listen, we'll pick up this order and when this is all over," and putting everything on hold. I'm astounded by that. But not surprised, not surprised at all.

And Ivan, how has your everyday life there now, are you feeling imperiled? Are you feeling safe? Are you feeling sort of in-between? Are there good days and bad days?

Ivan Frolov: So it's very difficult for me to talk about Kyiv because it's changed a lot.

Ivan Frolov: I think being back in Kyiv feels different from before. It's my native city–city when I was born and I love it so much. But if I can say that Kyiv is like a person, I feel like right now it has lots of scars and wounds. I don't know how to fix it. It also gets scary when big dates like 9th of May come as Putin and other Russian terrorists want to show their power, little victories, but they fail. So they get mad and try to bomb everything and killing thousands of innocent people. We did not understand that this work could be so terrible. We couldn't imagine that world leaders need so many murders, violence, and destroyed cities to finally understand that it's not just about Ukrainians and it's all humanity and danger to the whole world. So now I have a feeling that this war may end only when the whole world comes to protect Ukraine and help Ukraine in this war.

Dana Thomas: This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency from farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its

flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City, and at select stores.

Let’s return to my interview with Ukrainian fashion designers Ksenia Schnaider and Ivan Frolov. Ksenia is speaking to us from Nuremberg, Germany, where she, her husband and their young daughter have sought refuge from the war in their homeland. Ivan is in his studio in Kyiv. You can find their clothes on Zalando, Opening Ceremony, and Farfetch.

Dana Thomas: Ksenia, when I met you, you taught me about how important the fashion industry is in the Ukraine. You told me about it. And I learned also when my book Fashionopolis came out, because I had coverage in the magazines. There was Vogue and Harper Bazaar and L'Officiel. And there's Ukraine fashion week, which is the first pret-a-porter event in Eastern Europe, founded about 15 years ago, twice a year. And you both participate in that, correct?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yes.

Ivan Frolov: Yes, of course. My career started on Ukrainian fashion week, on the runway of Ukrainian fashion week.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah. Mine as well.

Dana Thomas: And a lot of people go, 12,000 go every year and there's a hundred designers. It's grown into a very big thing, hasn't it?

Ksenia Schnaider: It's very popular in Kyiv, it's huge event. Not only for fashion lover it's just for our community, very important.

Dana Thomas: And the fashion community in Ukraine is very important. It's a large business, isn't it?

Ivan Frolov: But I think it's still young industry in Ukraine.

Ksenia Schnaider: It's growing.

Ivan Frolov: Yes. It's growing. I think it's only 20 years .

Dana Thonas: So tell me about yourselves. How did you decide to get into fashion? Ksenia?

Ksenia Schnaider: I was born in Kyiv and I studied in Kyiv and I started my own brand there. So to be honest, I spent all my life in this city and now I had to leave it. It's first two months of my life where I'm out of my home. So it's quite, uh, difficult for me. I'm missing it really much.

Ivan Frolov: I always want to be a fashion designer. I did all sketches since I was a kid and wanted to make my own brand and create clothes for people. When I was 14 years old, I made my first dress.

Ivan Frolov: It was the dress for ballroom dances because I'm also a professional ballroom dancer. I also started at Kyiv's atelier where I met my first teacher. She was a pattern designer who taught me everything I know. So when I came to university, I know a lot about how to create clothes and I think it's important for designers to know how to create–not only draw or create collections, but to understand technical details about how to see, how to talk with your team in the same language of construction, technology, materials. So now I'm in Kyiv, in my dear Kyiv, and I'm happy to be here after two months I spent not here. I was in Western Ukraine. So now I'm happy.

Dana Thomas: So Ksenia, how many people do you have in your business? What was your company like before the invasion? You told me you were producing locally and you have a workshop with many people.

Ksenia Schnaider: We had everything in-house, so we have our own production with 30 people. We had our own PR and marketing team, our own sales team. A,nd we also opened two years ago a flagship store in Kyiv.

Ksenia Schnaider: For now, everything is closed and team had to find some safe places for their families. So for now only 17 people are actually working for the brand. And I think we are operating for 30 percentin compare before the wartime. But 30 percent now it's a huge, huge number. And I'm really proud that we are still operating. We still able to produce something in Lyiv and in other safe cities in Ukraine. And we are still able to send our goods. It's quite difficult logistics because there are no planes flying over Ukraine. So you have to take it by car and it's hard to find a safe way, even for a car. It's changing every day, you have to always check with volunteers. So you have to deliver it to the border, for example, to Poland or to Hungary. And only after custom clearance there, you can ship it worldwide. So it's quite long-term logistic and quite dangerous, but still, we are keep doing it.

Dana Thomas: Ksenia, sustainability is a very important part of Ukrainian fashion industry as well, isn't it? I know that that's your business making sustainable denim. Why did you decide to go into that area so early on?

Ksenia Schnaider: For me, it was quite organically because we have a lot of secondhand stores in Ukraine, so it's just something I personally wore during my life, like secondhand and vintage. And I remember that I redesigned old clothes when I was a teenager. So it's part of my DNA, working with something old and bringing it into a new level. So I had a brand for two or three years, and my husband actually, he was the one who proposed to work with old clothes because he said, look, we have so many old clothes, from all over Europe. They all sent unwanted and used clothes to Ukraine. So why we not give them a new life? Let's recreate, let's redesign them. So it started just like a hobby, I guess, we redesigned it for our friends and somehow our designs,

Ksenia Schnaider: they caught attention the industry, from, from cool bloggers and from Vogue, Liana Satenstein. She was the first who covered my design made of old jeans. And immediately, we became very successful and we had to scale this handmade hobby business into real business. That's why we had to open our own production because you cannot outsource such things. You cannot find a workshop or production who will play with it, who will cut by hand. It's quite difficult in terms of cutting, not only in terms of sewing, but it's a long process of sourcing and cutting. So that's why we opened this first.

It was quite small, only five people were working with us. And in a year, it became 30, and then 60–before COVID. So, somehow we started to rework around five tons per season, five tonnes of denim per season. And also we worked with textile-based, we created patchwork of it. We just love it. I don't know how, it's not our strategy or a concept. It's just our way of life, our way of thinking. It just organically happened for us.

Dana Thomas: Very circular way of working, isn't it. I didn't realize that Ukraine was one of the places where all the old clothes that get dumped into the charity shops is sent.

Ksenia Schnaider: We are number one in Europe.

Dana Thomas: For receiving clothes that have been given to charity?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah.

Dana Thomas: And that's before the war, just like that, it was just already the market.

Ksenia Schnaider: It's like forever. Our first place for years. So that's why we have a lot of cool, small brands who are cycling old clothes, small and big brands because for us, we can easily source such materials.

Dana Thomas: But you decided to be circular before it was a trendy thing to be.

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah. We started six or seven years ago.

Dana Thomas: How have you embraced sustainability in your brand? I know you do a lot of made-to-order, which is already something because it's a lot less wasteful, but what else do you do? That's sort of more green in practice?

Ivan Frolov: To tell the truth, sustainability for us is not just about how we produce pieces, but also how we communicate and what impact we leave afterward. It's our choice to create the best working conditions for our employees. For me, fashion is very powerful media that can communicate with people and awoke different emergent topics. So from exploring and talking about LGBTQ+ movement and transsexual culture, it was always able to ride the topic I felt were important and maybe not that wide in our country. And we continue to do it now using fashion as our frontline, to talk about Ukraine, about all this situation with the war, and to ask people to support us in any way they can.

Ivan Frolov: Also, as we're talking about sustainability, we produce seasonless pieces in our collection. We don't want our customers to follow the ideology of the fashion seasons in industry. You know, we have a logo of our brand that is anatomic heart, human heart. And we put it on each of our pieces. It's our own way to communicate that you can't put it into the trash when the season is finished. We believe that each of our pieces is alive and our customers feel the energy of the people who created them, because we have a lot of handmade embroidery and something like couture techniques we use to produce our corsets, our dresses, our embroidery. Even on our website, you can choose your perfect measurements and it helps us to stop overproduction.

Dana Thomas: That's terrific.

Dana Thomas: And you two have some pretty cool celebrity clients, don't you?

Ivan Frolov: Yes, we have.

Dana Thomas: Who are some of the people you've dressed?

Ksenia Schnaider: Dua Lipa and Celine Dion.

Ksenia Schnaider: Gigi, Bella, all the fashion girls.

Dana Thomas: Where has Dua Lipa worn your fashion?

Ksenia Schnaider: She had a performance during some football event. So she visited Kyiv her stylist, Lorenzo, visited our showroom and picked up a lot of clothes. So she was wearing KSENIASCHNAIDER during the year, like 10 or 15 times, different outfits.

Dana Thomas: Did you like how she looked in them?

Ksenia Schnaider: Yeah, to be honest. Yeah.

Dana Thomas: And Ivan, you too, besides the first lady, you have some star clients as well, don't you?

Ivan Frolov: Oh, yes. Our looks are worn by Dua Lipa as well as Ksenia's. Doja Cat, Gwen Stefani, Coco Rocha, Rita Ora, Natalie Cohen, Ashley Benson. And also, we have a lot of clients in Ukraine that also are fond of our looks, like Jamala, the winner of Eurovision, Dmytro Monatyk and lots others.

Dana Thomas: One of your clients has been Ukrainian first lady, Olena Zelenska. How is it to dress her? How did that come together and what did you make for her?

Ivan Frolov: I'm proud to say that when people in Ukraine talk about the highest class of dress code, a white tie, people think about Frolov brand. And it's a great honor that Olena and her team rely on us in the most important of her public appearances. Our first work for the first lady was the enthronement of the emperor of Japan.

Dana Thomas: Wow.

Ivan Frolov: The dress code was white tie, because of the leaders of the whole world attend this event. We created two looks for Olena for the morning and evening events. It was huge project because we received an express course of the colors and traditions of Japan to create those gowns. They were approved by Ukrainian protocol service, which approved it was Japan protocol service. So we choose pastel yellow dress for the morning outfit and blue color, like sky blue, pastel blue for evening gown.

And we also work for the church's anniversary of Ukrainian independence, we created for Olena evening out. It was a black woman's tuxedo with a corset. It's our statement piece. She attend a big concert in Kyiv Olympic stadium. It's always a big honor to work with her and she knows clear what she wants and she's very nice person. I like her sense of style.

Dana Thomas: Yeah. She has a very sure sense of style doesn't she? She knows what she…

Ivan Frolov: Yeah. She knows what she want. She's fond of men's suits. So she like wearing straight silhouettes, pants, jackets, classic jackets. Even our blue dress for evening event in Japan was inspired by man's tuxedo.

Dana Thomas: Fantastic.

Dana Thomas: So today is Day 70 of the invasion. Did either one of you ever think it would carry on this long?

Ksenia Schnaider: I was the one who was sure that it will never happen. Never. It's impossible that war will be in our country. So we stayed. I know that in media and there were huge, that the war gonna be on 15th, then on 17th, that you should leave the country and all embassies, they took back their employees, but we all, I mean, most of my friends and my team, we all believed that it's impossible and we will work as normal as usual. So when it started, I thought–I hoped—that it will end in a few days, that it's a huge mistake and it's impossible to last longer, but now it's almost second month, third month. I really don't know the time, because we all live now in endless, endless fear, endless stress. And you just don't follow the dates. You just follow the news, it's like endless–endless something. I don't know how to explain. It's really horrible.

Dana Thomas: What do you think will happen next? If you had a crystal ball, what do you see? Do you think you'll stay in Kyiv? Do you think this will sort out? Are you planning to leave again? What do you think?

Ivan Frolov: It's very difficult to predict what will happen in next time, because I think Putin and Russia is like terroristic organization. They show it to the world and they can do what they want anytime. So we can expect everything and we are ready for everything. But now, all my concentration is on the team and company. And I try to be useful for my country every minute, to support our country, our soldiers and our economy. As a team, we think a lot how we can rebuild everything that was destroyed, meaning all that is in our power of course, and how we can support the economy, be operating in our business. So it's everything that we are thinking, all of our thinking about.

Dana Thomas: How can we offer the greatest support to you and to Ivan and to your compatriots and your colleagues and your loved ones?

Ksenia Schnaider: The fashion world do not really understand what exactly is going on, on the industry level with us. We invested money into our full winter '23 collections, but all of Ukrainian designers, we were not able to receive any order because buyers, they, as you know, do not want to risk. So no one ordered our clothing for next season. So whole Ukrainian fashion industry is going to miss fall-winter season. And also we are facing some troubles with spring-summer '22, as I already told you. And we do not receive any government support now. As you know, our government have more important issue, they have more people who need their support and money, not fashion industry. So we can count only on ourselves.

Ksenia Schnaider: Maybe it's something that global fashion industry—they're not understand in what position we all are. So talking about support, I think we, as designers, we need somehow to produce, to create, to deliver and all this for now it's impossible to do in Ukraine. So we, we all are united, Ukrainian designers. We have chats, we have groups where we discuss, how can we receive any support or how we can organize a pop-up to raise money, or how can we spread awareness? So we are very united as well. So trying to keep going,

Dana Thomas: Try to keep going. That's it.

Ivan Frolov: I think the main thing is to talk about Ukraine. I think very important for Ukrainians now is: Do not connect us, do not put Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarusians people in one line. We heard a lot about that Ukrainians and Russians are like brothers or sisters. But it's not the same. We are totally different people and it's very important for people to know Ukrainian history, . It can help to understand why we are different, and why what's happening right now.

Dana Thomas: People worldwide have been inspired by the collective courage and resilience and conviction and resolve of the Ukrainian people. How did such fierce cultural identity develop, where does this come from? This strength and power and courage. And what has been your most proud moment during this period of your fellow citizens?

Ivan Frolov: I'm proud of each Ukrainian and each Ukrainian family and each Ukrainian soldier, because they're so brave.Every day, is the day that show to the world how brave is Ukrainian people.

Ksenia Schnaider: I'm happy to see how united we became, and how we support each other, and how we feel the pain as our own pain, you know, like while reading the news you can start crying and you immediately wanted to donate something to help these people. So the empathy, I think it's very important now. I am proud that we are still caring about animals, about plants. Yesterday, I saw picture of ruined house, totally ruined, and woman were watering a small plant in a pot–her plant. It's heartbreaking, but I think it's really important to still keep something human inside, not to become evil and hate everyone, but to support someone who is in more vulnerable position than you. I think that's something that makes me proud.

Dana Thomas: Well, thank you so much, both of you, for being on The Green Dream, and we're sending you lots of courage and hope, and we like to say, this is the podcast of hope. So we hope that you all don't lose your hope and that you can carry on and stay strong. Thank you so much.

Ksenia Schnaider: Thank you.

Ivan Frolov: Thank you.

If you are enjoying this conversation, you’ll love my sister podcast on the Wondercast Network, Fashion Conversations with Bronwyn Cosgrave. Fashion Conversations is fashion’s equivalent to Inside the Actors Studio—an in-depth interview podcast with fashion and luxury’s leading creators that explores their craft and creative process as well as their personal journeys. Find Fashion Conversations wherever you get your podcasts.

Before we go, I'm excited to share with you that we have added a new contributor to The Green Dream: Jacqueline Coley, the respected writer for the film and television review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes. Jacqueline will join us every couple of weeks to tell us about great movies and television programs that are somehow linked to the environment and humanity. Could be Godzilla vs. Kong, which on the surface appeared to be an epic creature feature, but at its core was actually about climate change. Could be a documentary like The Velvet Queen, about the elusive snow leopards in the Tibetan Highlands. We’re kicking off Jacqueline's Green Dream gig with a special edition next week from the Cannes Film Festival on the French Riviera. We hope you'll join us.

New episodes of The Green Dream come out the first and third Tuesday of the month. This episode of the Green Dream was sponsored by the sustainable fashion brand Another Tomorrow. Written by Dana Thomas. From Talkbox Productions with executive producer Tavia Gilbert, with mix and master by Kayla Elrod. Music performed by Eric Brace of Red Beet Records in Nashville, Tennessee. The Green Dream is a production of Wondercast Studio in association with Mortimer House. You can find us online at wondercast.studio or at Wondercast Radio. I’m Dana Thomas, the European Sustainability Editor for British Vogue. You can read my monthly column, also called The Green Dream, in the magazine or online at Vogue.co.uk. You can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter where my handle for both is @DanaThomasParis. Thank you for listening.