Remembering André Leon Talley

S3 E1:

Reminiscing with

André Leon Talley -

A Tribute

Dana Thomas: This is Dana Thomas and you're listening to The Green Dream, a podcast about how to green up your life.

Climate change is bearing down on us like a mighty hurricane, and it's scary as hell, but it doesn't have to be. I'm Dana Thomas, a leading voice in the sustainable fashion movement. On The Green Dream, I welcome global experts, creators and change-makers, from politics, business, and the arts for dynamic conversations on how you can green up your life. The Green Dream is the podcast of hope.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency. From farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City and at select stores.

And this episode is sponsored by Chloé, luxury fashion's first B-Corp-certified brand, dedicated to bringing positive impact to people and planet in everything it does. Chloé is committed to improving social and environmental sustainability with greater transparency, accountability, and beyond, and with an aim to create a fairer and more sustainable future. Find out more on Chloé.com

My guest on The Green Dream today is the legendary former Vogue editor André Leon Talley, and no, he is not speaking to us from the grave, though if anyone could, and would, it would be André!

I first met André in the early 1990s, when I moved to Paris, and saw him at fashion shows. About ten years ago, I did an interview with him for my book Gods and Kings: The Rise and Fall of Alexander McQueen and John Galliano, and I always have felt that it was one of the most hilarious and moving conversations I've ever had with anyone. Nothing with André was ever less than full-on.

This week, a year after his death at 73 from Covid-19, a large swath of his estate is up for auction at Christie's in New York, to benefit two of his favorite places of worship, the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem and the Mt. Sinai Missionary Baptist Church in Durham, North Carolina, where he grew up.

The Christie's auction is how this interview fits into The Green Dream remit: if you buy well, and, boy, did André buy well (and was gifted very well too), your belongings can have a good long life after you are gone–be it heirlooms for friends and family, or estate sales open to the public. As I say often in my British Vogue sustainability column, in interviews, and in conference speeches, the most sustainable thing you can do is buy less, buy better. We’ve even turned into a hashtag: #buylessbuybetter.

André and I met for our interview at the Mona Bismarck American Center in Paris, where he was overseeing the installation of "Little Black Dress," an exhibition he had originally curated for the Savannah College of Art and Design's Museum of Art. André was very involved with SCAD, as the university is known, and he left a portion of his estate to the museum. I have had a long association with SCAD, too, and spent several months in Savannah as a writer-in-residence at the university, working on Gods and Kings.

During our chat, André discusses how he first met the British fashion designer John Galliano back in the 1980s, and talks about their long and sometimes wobbly friendship. He also tells us how he helped another friend, John's longtime muse Amanda Harlech, land her charmed gig as Karl Lagerfeld's creative consultant at Chanel.

Karl, who was a dear friend of André's, and died in 2019 at 85, had many jobs over the years, most of them at the same time: he designed for Chanel, Fendi, his namesake brand, and from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s, Chloé. He returned to Chloé for a stretch in the 1990s, until our friend, the eco-minded designer Stella McCartney, took over. During the Covid-19 pandemic, Chloé took advantage of the quiet time to pivot fully to social and climate practices, and earned its B Corp certification. We're honored to have Chloé as sponsor for this episode, and our next one, with model and climate activist Amber Valletta.

I'd like to take a moment here to mention we have a new website, thegreendream.studio, a handsome set-up where you can tune into back episodes of this podcast, check out the accompanying transcripts, and sign-up for The Green Dream Newsletter.

Now onto André. It's a fun fashion conversation, and, at times, quite lively–you'll hear him pounding his big fist on the table to make his many important points. In this first section, he speaks about when he met John Galliano. At the time, John was dating and living with fellow British fashion designer Jasper Conran. André also talks about his friend, the shoe designer Manolo Blahnik, and Manolo's sister Evangeline, who helped run the business and the London boutique. André then moves onto to explain how Galliano's landmark Fall-Winter 1994-1995 show came together. At times, André mentions "Steven," who was Steven Robinson, Galliano's longtime design assistant and studio manager, who died in 2007 of a cocaine-induced heart attack. There are also references to Gianfranco Ferré, who was the Dior designer before John Galliano. And he talks about the British milliner Stephen Jones, who designed all the hats for John Galliano's collections, and São Schlumberger, who was a Portuguese socialite in Paris, and good friend of André's. Do note, there is one French word André uses a lot that you may not know: toile, spelled t-o-i-l-e. A toile is the design studio's muslin mock-up of an outfit. Now sit back and enjoy!

André Leon Talley: This is how I met John Galliano. First, let's go back. At one time I used to go to London at a certain point for the collections, and I remember very well that I had gone to London probably to see Vivienne Westwood. She was then the top thing to go see. I think I was the mini clan show and I was in London and I was invited to go to Jasper Conran and John Galliano's house for dinner.

Dana Thomas: At Regent's Park.

André Leon Talley: Yes, when they were a couple. Remember, they were a couple. And they used to go around town together dressed like little Lord Fauntleroys. And so I went to this dinner on a Sunday, me and Manolo, in their house, and everything was fine. And on Monday afternoon, around 4:30–5 o'clock on a Monday, I was in Manolo's shoe store on the Old Church Road. And he had just installed a new carpeting. And I felt something was happening inside of me that I really thought, "Get out of the store, because it's going to erupt into a volcano." And I threw up, because the fish that was served on Sunday night was obviously bad. And it gave me the, you know when you get sick from...

Dana Thomas: Food poisoning.

André Leon Talley: But it was like "The Exorcist." And I felt it coming, I ran to the door, and ran to the sidewalk, and actually it was a vomitorium on the sidewalk, just a vomitorium. Later, I had to go get the hose and wash it up, because I felt so bad. I was so embarrassed. But then, thank God, I left Manolo's store. Because he would've never spoken to me again. And Evangeline would've never given me the time of day, and thank God I didn't throw up on that carpet.

And that's when I first realized who he was, because I had that memory that I went to their house for dinner. And then the next day, I was sick as a dog, throwing up on the sidewalk of Manolo's store. And [his sister] Evangeline saying, "Well, thank God you went outside." But then they helped me clean up, and I went to bed for two days and I was fine.

Then I didn't see John anymore. And one day someone in Paris said to me, "Oh, there's this incredible, you've got to go see the John Galliano show." Because I remember a show with, at the end, they had pillow fights. I said, "Well, I don't know this show." And they said, "Well, here." They gave me the video.

Then I got to do Amanda Harlech in Wales. I knew of Amanda, but I'd never really gotten close to her. So we were in the house, and, of course, all the style was there. We were running around on the beach and there were bats in the barn and everything. And she started pulling out these extraordinary jackets of John Galliano. What one was a jacket that was structured, but the black organza was in see-through, and in it, and it was like, you know when a child has a toy? You turned it upside down, and it floats, but it was silvery sparkles, or something. The jacket was implanted with stuff that moved. And so every time I would look, she would have these extraordinary John Galliano pieces. And we were on the beach taking a picture, and all the clothes then were Gianfranco Ferré, most of them. And Amanda put them on. And then at one point we're on the beach and I said, "What are you doing? Why are you collecting all that stuff? The trash?" She said, "This is not trash. This is the inspiration box. I'm collecting broken shards of glass and things from the beach that I think are fabulous. And I will put them in boxes and send them to John and that would be the inspiration. That's how we work." So she was picking up colors of glass and stuff and things that I wouldn't look at. And sending them to John in Paris for his show.

Dana Thomas: Why did you put her in Ferré? Why didn't you…?

André Leon Talley: Because at that point – I had some John Galliano, and we did photograph in one John Galliano thing. Maybe one or two. But also I had to make a big story. You know, you can't just put her in John Galliano at that point, in Vogue. And I wanted the Ferré coat because it was a fabulous coat. So it was about a whole story, I had to mix it up. There was some Galliano, I think, in it. Go back and look at the story. I think that black jacket I'm talking about is in there. We were in Milan, and Anna and I came back on the same plane. And for some reason–oh, how did I meet John?

André Leon Talley: Where did I meet John? He was in Paris. Then after I met Amanda, I was really interested in what John was doing because I had met Amanda. And so I was keeping up through him through Amanda. So we were in Milan and I came back on a plane late one night from Milan and I said, "Well, I'm going to see this John Galliano preview." And that's when I went to that studio, Plein Sud. And they were up in some little Dickensian sort of corner, with a Bunsen burner heating up canned foods. And there was one of the big toiles for the crinoline show–the Russians leaving the Winter Palace. And I didn't even see a dress. I saw toile, a huge, big toile. And Amanda was in there. Steven and John were there, and they literally like Dickens, there was like a little thing to warm the tea.

Dana Thomas: Hot plate or...

André Leon Talley: No, a little can, Sterno. Sterno. And it was 11 o'clock at night. And they described this to me and they described it vividly. And so I said, "This is going to be an incredible show." And from that one crinoline, we got involved, and I went to the crinoline show, which was absolutely amazing. That was Christy Turlington, Ascot, great maxi coats, Manolo's fabulous stiletto mules. The tilted hat. The tilted tribley, the tilted derby. And it was fabulous, and I just started talking about it, saying, "This is extraordinary." And telling people that this is it. And the show was absolutely brilliant. And then about three or four days later, someone calls me and says, "John is sleeping on the floor at Steven's house. And he's been kicked out of Plein Sud."

And so we met. I said, "John, what is this? What do you mean you've been kicked out?" They dismissed him, remember? And right after that successful show. And so we thought, "Well, this cannot be. You've just had the most extraordinary show in the whole season, and now you've been fired, and you're sleeping on the floor in the sleeping bag in Steven's house." And he was totally – he's inarticulate at times. When he has a trauma, he can't even talk. He can't function, he can't talk. He's shaking, he's trembling. You think he's got the shakes, you'd think he's coming off heroin. And I said, "Well, this just cannot be, because the clothes were fabulous." And at the same time, from that Ascot scene, the Ascot dresses, there was the Russians in the crinolines escaping the Revolution. Then there was Scotland and the Highland jig, with the little mini skirts in the plaid with the little dovetail things.

And I said to São, “This is something you have got to see and you have absolutely got to order clothes.” So he went to São's house, and he made her an ankle-length kilt, inspired by those kilts that were mini in his show. And she loved it. And that was fitted at her house.

He had no money. So then, it was Christmas, and someone gave me a Christmas party, Glenn Bernbaum at Mortimers gave me a sit-down dinner in his cafe. And we went to this dinner, and there was John Bult.

John Bult, I had met before through Katie Marron and Don Marron. And he said, "Do you think there's anyone in fashion I should be interested in?" I said, "Well, let me think about that." And then we came back to Paris in January and there was still no money for John – Plein Sud was being a dog to him. And John Bult called me and said, "I'd like to come to Paris on the Concorde and discuss with you. I'd like to represent someone in fashion." So John Bult flew in a Concorde one Saturday. We met in the lobby of the Hotel Bristol. We sat down, John was not there.

And he said, "Tell me something." He's seen John at this dinner party. "Do you think this is something I can get involved with John Galliano?" I said, "Absolutely you can. We do need the money and he needs you and we need the support. Whatever you can do." This is on a Saturday. He flew on a Concorde right to meet with me, not with John Galliano. He sat in the Bristol. He went back to New York, he called me, and says, "I'm coming back to New York this Saturday, and I'm going to set up whatever you need." And he came back the next Saturday on the Concorde, and with a lawyer, his lawyer in Paris. And the next week, John, and myself, and Steven went to his representative in Paris, and he set up an escrow of $50,000. That show at São Schlumberger's was all done with a meager $50,000 from John Bult.

So he put in an escrow. We went to the French lawyer. John was trembling, he didn't even talk. I mean, every time I saw him, he was just shaking. And then we had to figure out where can we have this show? And then it came to me that São had the best house, and it was perfect, because it's empty. And it's going to be given for free and it's not going to cost anything. So I said to John and Steven, "We're going to take São to lunch." I can't remember the restaurant, but it was some fabulous place where they served good food. So I said, "We're going to take São to lunch, and we are going to sit down. And let me do the talking.” And I said, "São, you know, there's no such thing as a free lunch. We are here, and we have a project that we would like for you to be involved in. We have this fabulous show. We have this extraordinary thing we want to do. And we have the money we want to put on this fashion show in your former house. And it will really be incredible. And we will have two shows and the world will come, and it will be extraordinary. And you can order all the clothes you want." And São didn't do much. She was very restrained when she talked, and she looked at us and she said, "Of course, you can have my house. I'll just go get a mini facelift." Because it was going to be a big thing for her. And that's how we got São's house.

And I must say it all came together, like I'm telling you. John Bult, the $50,000; São gave us the house. The models came in for free. Manolo was called. He did his shoes for free. Amanda came, and Stephen [Jones] did the hats. Amanda was instrumental at the Schlumberger house. I give total credit to Amanda because she was the stylist. I had nothing to do with the picking of the clothes or the way they were gonna be shown. It was a stunning show, as you remember. It was a brilliant show.

Oh, and another thing he didn't want to do: Steven and John were not on the radar with Nadja Auermann. Nadja Auermann was coming straight up into Vogue. Helmut Newton. Big! And Steven said to me, "We don't get that model." I said, "Well, you have got to get her, because you know what? She's in Vogue and she's going to be in the show. You're going to get her." "Well, we really don't like her. She's not feeling..." I said, "Steven, listen to me. You have got to put Nadja Auermann in this show." "Well, she's not really our type of girl." I said, "I don't care. She's got to be in the show." And, of course, she had one of the best outfits, because once she came, and they met her, they put her in the hat and the coat and nothing else. The legs and the shoes. It was brilliant. And so he did listen. They did listen. I remember we had two shows...

Dana Thomas: And they were in the morning?

André Leon Talley: They were in the morning,

Dana Thomas: But they still started late.

André Leon Talley: They started late because they were still putting the ruffle on Kate Moss's dress, a Japanese Obi evening gown in one of São's rooms, they had the door closed and they were still in their pinning and putting the thing on. But just one. But they're gonna always be late because that's the way creative people are. You know, they're magicians. Look at Alaïa. He's always late. I never expected it to have that kind of impact that it did. But I was glad. And I said, it takes the village. He always trusted Amanda on everything. So Amanda was right there controlling the whole thing creatively. And all I had to do was zhush, tweak and greet the guests and get the guests to come. And São was very very very very pleased.

Dana Thomas: A lot of people think that was actually the high point of his career.

André Leon Talley: I think so too. Because you had the world at his feet. The world of Vogue.

Dana Thomas: Seventeen perfect outfits.

André Leon Talley: Seventeen perfect outfits, starting late because there's sewing on one pink ruffle at the bottom of Kate Moss. The perfect hats.

Dana Thomas: The most beautiful girl.

André Leon Talley: And the most beautiful makeup. And the little Stephen Jones hats.

Dana Thomas: And the world's most beautiful jewels.

André Leon Talley: The guards, they were telling me the guards upstairs, there were so many, it was like a traffic jam on her third floor. Where they were keeping the jewelry. Also, apparently – which is good for your book – children were conceived between shows.

Dana Thomas: I love that.

André Leon Talley: Mr. Bolt had given him money, of course Anna Wintour was all over it and it was all over Vogue, and it was the best thing that could have happened to him. There were great moments though. I think we became very close friends that summer in Paris. I used to have him over to my apartment.

Dana Thomas: Where was your apartment?

André Leon Talley: On Boulevard de la Tour-Maubourg, 94. And I would have him over and have movie nights with him and Steven and I. Or in the afternoons, I say, "Come up and see this fabulous movie," because he didn't know all the great black-and-white films. I had this room with the back. I had three bedrooms, so one bedroom I made into a TV room. And it was Sunday afternoon, and, you know, the window gave onto the courtyard in a French building, if you open the windows, people could hear you, sleeping and everything. It was 4:30 and we were watching "Alice Adams," this great movie with Katharine Hepburn. And when Hattie McDaniel said, "Dinner's served," John went ballistic. He was screaming out the window, on a Sunday afternoon. I said, "John, stop screaming!"

By the way, coming to see a movie at my house, there's the three of us–think of what the looks were like. The looks were as attenuated, as detailed, as on the runway at Dior. He was wearing that day a sort of a Sari skirt, like a seafoam green Sari skirt, a blazer, and Doc Martens boots. But everything was chosen. It was not some old jeans and a T-shirt. He dressed to come to this movie screening thing. "Dinner's served." And so he just kept screaming. He got obsessed with it. So he was screaming, "Dinner is served!" and he was on nothing. This was Sunday afternoon. He wasn't stoned. I had no drugs to give him. I had no marijuana.

We may have had alcohol, we may have had, maybe some vodka. I don't even think I had vodka. And he just kept screaming, "Dinner's served!" He loved it. He loved it. He loved it. "Dinner's served!" That's one of my favorite moments with him, just screaming. And this is at 4:30, and 9:00 he's still screaming "Dinner's served!" "Dinner's served!"out the window into the courtyard. Because he's pretending he's Hattie McDaniel! He's pretending he's Hattie McDaniel! "Dinner's served!" "Dinner's served!" It's one of my favorite things. Hattie McDaniel is– it was one of my favorite evenings ever with him.

Dana Thomas: Let's take a break here to compose ourselves, pour a cup of tea, and allow me to tell you about our new website, TheGreenDream.Studio. There you can find back episodes of this podcast and their accompanying transcripts, and you can sign up for The Green Dream Newsletter, written by yours truly. Do take a spin on it.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency. From farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City and at select stores.

And this episode is sponsored by Chloé, luxury fashion's first B-Corp-certified brand, dedicated to bringing positive impact to people and planet in everything it does. Chloé is committed to improving social and environmental sustainability with greater transparency, accountability, and beyond, with an aim to create a fairer and more sustainable future. Find out more on Chloé.com.

Now let's return to my 2013 interview with legendary Vogue editor André Leon Talley. He's about to tell us about how he helped his friend and longtime John Galliano creative consultant Amanda Harlech land a plumb job with Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel in 1997.

André Leon Talley: So Amanda and I had become really close, because, you know, how she is. And I had gone to her house and in Wales for the red coat. So this is my second trip to Amanda's house, which is a very important part of the story. So after they had gone to Givenchy and gotten those big jobs at Givenchy for the last year and a half, whatever, and Amanda had been getting treated like she was nobody. And she was telling me this. And I thought, "Well, this cannot be. I've gotta do something to help Amanda, she's got to survive." She's got two children, a divorce. And she's living in a run-down house, where it's freezing cold, and she's got bills to pay.

So it was one summer couture, July, fall/winter. And Amanda was in town, and I was still living here. I was living in Paris, and she's still got the negotiations going on. And I said, "Hmm." I said, "Karl, I would like to bring Amanda Harlech to the Chanel show." That's all I had to say. I said, "Can I invite her? Can I invite her?" "Oh, sure, why not?" Because at this point, Karl was… So I said, "Amanda, you're coming to the Chanel show.” And I took her backstage to meet Karl. And I know Karl well enough, all I had to do was stand back, and see what Karl was going to say to her, and how he was going to respond to her. And, of course, she was dressed in some little simple black thing.

And all I needed to hear was, "Go to the couture and order anything you like." And he said that. I wasn't coaxing him. And she said, "Oh, really? Oh no, I can't." Of course, she was being totally polite. And she got herself a very beautiful simple black wool coat to the floor. Simple black, boucle wool coat. And that was in June and July. And that told me Karl likes her.

October ready-to-wear: the saga continues. They are not giving her more money. She's been treated badly by the person who was the president. He's gone now. You remember he was some man...

Dana Thomas: Baufumé.

André Leon Talley: Baufumé! And I said to myself, what I have to say something to Karl, because now she has ordered her couture thing that he's given her as a gift, generously. And I'm on the phone to Karl one day, and I said, "You know what? It just cannot possibly be. Amanda is being treated badly, and this has got to change. I just can't let this happen to her, because she's so wonderful." And he insanely likes her. And he says, "Darling, darling, darling, do whatever you want. Take her to the boutique, dress her, and bring her to the show." I said, "Oh really?" "Yes. Just go to a boutique, dress her up, and bring her to the show."

And so this is on a Sunday. So I call Amanda. I said, "Amanda, we are going to the Chanel boutique, they're opening for us before 10 o'clock." The show is on, maybe it's Monday to Tuesday. "And we are going to go in there and we are going to run through and get you totally dressed in Chanel, head-to-toe. And we are going to the Chanel ready-to-wear show." I didn't say what was happening, nothing. I never assumed that Karl would say, "I'm going to give you a job." I just said, "Just do it. Just follow my lead, get any stuff you want, and we are going to run to the show." And we literally go in there, she gets a gray suit with a skirt and a jacket with jewel buttons. She puts her own Stephen Jones hat, Manolos. We fly in the store, we get the whole look–the bag, the gloves, the shoes–in 15 minutes they have opened the store, the boutique on Rue Cambon. We get in one of the Vogue cars, and we rush to the show.

And as we are rushing into the show, Joan Juliet Buck [then-editor of French Vogue], who's very smart, says to me, "Oh, Amanda, are you working? Are you going to be working for Karl?" Because she sees the clothes. And it was a show where the girls were coming on a treadmill. Do you know the show? And over there on the quai, where they were roulettes, treadmills, or something. And after the show we go backstage, and then Karl says something to Amanda, and she has the proposition to come to work at Chanel.

For Karl to say, "Get anything you want – she could have ordered six things, he would've said nothing. But he knew then, too, that this person could work in his world, even though she'd had a huge relationship with John. He knew by her style, and who she was, and her intellect, and her upbringing, and her education: "This lady is going to be great in my world, too." And it never wavered.

Now, that was in October. And then I was in Paris. I didn't go to New York, and I went on Thanksgiving with Amanda, to her home, to Wales. We went to the airport together to Birmingham, because now she's going to go home and wait to see what kind of contract Chanel was sending her. So I felt very much a part of this.

So I said, “Okay, I'll go with you to Wales.” So we get on the plane, we go to Birmingham, she's got the same suit she got at the boutique, the whole thing. And we get off the plane. I stay at her house for a week. So the first night, we get off the plane, we go into this fabulous Harlech country-sea house. And I go into the guest bedroom, and I go to bed. And I can tell you I felt as I was sleeping on a lake of ice. I was never so cold in my entire life. I thought I was sleeping on a lake of ice. A lake of ice, in her guest bedroom. It was so cold, I thought, "I cannot take this." So the house is so big, and she's still married to the Lord Harlech. But they have split up because Lord Harlech is having an affair with a Filipino nurse, something, or, masseur, in the other side of the house.

Dana Thomas: Was this the house called The Mount?

André Leon Talley: The Mount. And The kids are there. They're young, Tullalah and Jasset. And so after that first night, I just couldn't take it because Lord Harlech cut the heat off in the middle of the night to save money. So you are literally freezing. He would cut the heat. So then, the second night, no, the second night she found me sitting in the morning room where there was a fire, sitting in the morning room near the kitchen, because that was the only place there was a fire going. And Jasset was going to school, had on shorts. I said, "Amanda, how can your child go to school with those shorts on?" “Children don't feel cold like adults do." Yet she's going to ride a horse with two layers of sweaters. You know, the whole nine yards. And I'm sitting there freezing.

So she finds me in the morning room. She says, "What are you doing down here?" I said, "I'm so sorry Amanda, I have to go back to Paris." "What for?" I said, "Well, I forgot some medicine, you can't order it in Wales, and I think I left at the Ritz. So I really need my medicine." "Oh, nonsense, we can get it at the pharmacist." I had to have a break. I said, "Amanda I'm so cold." I even had a coat, a fur coat sent from the Ritz, FedExed, DHLed over. I said, "I can't cope. I'm sorry your house is so cold. I'm not used to this." She says, "Oh please, we'll fix it." So then I had just moved to the living room–the drawing room, and slept in the drawing room for a week on the sofa, because that's the only place I could have a fire. And I could get up and stoke the fire.

André Leon Talley: And Lord Harlech came in one night, and he says, "What's going on in here?" And I was by myself. Amanda wasn't in the room, she was upstairs in the bed, because she was sleeping in her own bed. I said, "I'm cold, I'm stoking a fire. I have to be warm." So I stayed there for a week. She would ride all day. I would sit in the house and send faxes to Karl. And she got the contract. And that's how she got to Chanel.

Dana Thomas: In 2008, John Galliano was supposed to fly from New York to Savannah to receive the André Leon Talley Lifetime Achievement Award at the Savannah College of Art and Design, or SCAD. Things did not go as planned.

André begins by summing up how he sees John Galliano as a designer, and a friend.

André Leon Talley: He is the magician. I think he is one of the rarest people that we've ever had in the world of fashion. He has shown at many times total respect and total disrespect. For instance, I gave him the André Leon Talley Lifetime Achievement Award at SCAD. What year was it?

And SCAD is very gracious to people who get this award. We take very good care of them. They're picked up on a chartered plane. They're taken to SCAD, the whole treatment. They're treated royally. So we are going, Katherine Ross at that time working at Dior and I are going to SCAD, and I'm on my way to the airport Teterboro to get on the chartered plane. And I get a phone call, and I'm almost at the airport. It's Katherine Ross. "I'm so sorry for that bad news. I can't wake John up." I say, "What do you mean you can't wake John up?" She says, "”He won't answer the door." He was in New York to come, but he wouldn't get up out of bed. And I said, "Well, then that's so sad. You'll have to come and accept the award for him." Because she was coming anyway. And she did, remember? And I mean he was a big thing. And he just, for some reason, was he, like, out of it? Was he stoned? He didn't get up out of the bed to come to SCAD. But he made his trip and he stayed out all night or something. Remember he didn't go to Buckingham Palace for the Queen.

Dana Thomas: I know. He later said he had a migraine but...

André Leon Talley: So years later, this is how he makes it up to me. Years later, maybe not the same year, but maybe two years later, he suddenly has been knighted by the Queen, or given some medal. The OBE. I'm at Oscar de la Renta's studio at Balmain, and it's a Saturday night and John calls and says, "I want you to come see my clothes because I could go anytime and look at the previews–he didn't hide things from me, but I just would say, "This is great. This is great, Steven. And this is great. This is fabulous. You can tweak this, and not tweak this." And I go to Christian Dior on a Saturday night to see his collection. If he's showing the next Monday or something in the couture. He says, "I have something for you." And I said, "What is it?" And he went and he got this little box, and it was his medal for being knighted. He says, "This is what you need." And he gave me the box and I took it and I put it in a safe. He could've given it to his mother.

Dana Thomas: Oh, wow.

André Leon Talley: I was really touched that he did that. So that was his way of saying he was sorry. And I still have it. And I said to him, if you ever want it back, you can have it. You can always take it back. And I still have it in a safe in New York. I never wear it or anything. But I thought it was the greatest gesture he could have done.

Dana Thomas: Absolutely.

André Leon Talley: He said, "This belongs to you." I was so moved. Because, I didn't think that I had made that much of an impact in his life. I just tried to help him.

Dana Thomas: And that, dear listeners, was my friend, André Leon Talley, a good and kind soul who dedicated his life to helping gifted young talent get the recognition and advancement they deserved. Such generous spirits don't come around very often – especially in the cut-throat fashion business – and we are so very lucky when they do. He is sorely missed.

Thank you for listening to The Green Dream's special tribute to André Leon Talley. Tune in next week for our episode with supermodel and climate activist Amber Valletta. We'll talk about how fashion can be more sustainable. We hope you'll join us.

This episode is sponsored by Another Tomorrow, a women's fashion brand that redefines luxury with a commitment to ethics, sustainability, and transparency. From farm to fabric to atelier. Find Another Tomorrow on its website, anothertomorrow.co, at its flagship boutique, 384 Bleecker Street in New York City and at select stores.

And this episode is sponsored by Chloé, luxury fashion's first B-Corp-certified brand, dedicated to bringing positive impact to people and planet in everything it does. Chloé is committed to improving social and environmental sustainability with greater transparency, accountability, and beyond, with an aim to create a fairer and more sustainable future. Find out more on Chloé.com.

The Green Dream was written by Dana Thomas. From Talkbox Productions with executive producer Tavia Gilbert, and mix and master by Kayla Elrod. Music performed by Eric Brace of Red Beet Records in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m Dana Thomas, the European Sustainability Editor for British Vogue. You can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter, where my handle for both is @DanaThomasParis. And you can sign up for The Green Dream Newsletter at our website: thegreendream.studio. Thank you for listening.